不多说了,看看老外们是怎么讨论的吧 -------------------------------------- Best language to learn for jobs - Java? C#? 关于此主题的全部 8 个帖子 - 树式浏览 [email protected] 1月18日 下午10时41分 显示选项 新闻论坛:comp.programming 发件人: [email protected] - 查找此作者的帖子 日期:18 Jan 2006 06:41:34 -0800 当地时间:2006年1月18日(星期三) 下午10时41分 主题:Best language to learn for jobs - Java? C#? 回复 | 答复作者 | 转发 | 打印 | 显示个别帖子 | 显示原始邮件 | 报告滥用行为 Hi all. I'm 37 and experienced z/OS (MVS) Operations Analyst/Programmer with COBOL, REXX and Easytrieve+ under my belt. Wondering which new language and toolset(s) to learn to add to my CV. I had a ZX81, Genie and BBC Micro as a kid thus I learnt BASIC in many forms. I did Pascal, LISP and prolog in University so I find new languages easy to pick up. My final year project was a weak AI system to diagnose car faults (corny I know) written in DOMAIN (an extension of LISP) which used "frames" aka objects to represent knowledge so I met objects at an early age. I'm thinking Java because I like the look of it, and some industry spies say it is still sought-after. Also I see it in connection with Websphere in shops with z/OS so there's a migration path there. Although I hear a lot about C# these days, especially in conjunction with the .NET framework. And I've done Macros in VB for Excel and terminal emulators. My objectives are: 1. to give me another career option if z/OS work dries up 2. to enable me to program my own systems e.g. website and accounts if I start my own business 3. To have fun learning, and to do this in my own time (commuting and evenings) So should I learn Java, C#, VB or what? How do these languages relate to web architectures such as .asp, php? Can I self-learn and just take an exam? Appreciate your input. Alan Cheshire, UK. 回复
Duane Arnold 1月19日 上午12时10分 显示选项 新闻论坛:comp.programming 发件人: "Duane Arnold" <[email protected]> - 查找此作者的帖子 日期:Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:10:02 GMT 当地时间:2006年1月19日(星期四) 上午12时10分 主题:Re: Best language to learn for jobs - Java? C#? 回复 | 答复作者 | 转发 | 打印 | 显示个别帖子 | 显示原始邮件 | 报告滥用行为 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]... - 隐藏被引用文字 - - 显示引用的文字 -> Hi all. > I'm 37 and experienced z/OS (MVS) Operations Analyst/Programmer with > COBOL, REXX and Easytrieve+ under my belt. > Wondering which new language and toolset(s) to learn to add to my CV. I > had a ZX81, Genie and BBC Micro as a kid thus I learnt BASIC in many > forms. > I did Pascal, LISP and prolog in University so I find new languages > easy to pick up. My final year project was a weak AI system to diagnose > car faults (corny I know) written in DOMAIN (an extension of LISP) > which used "frames" aka objects to represent knowledge so I met objects > at an early age. > I'm thinking Java because I like the look of it, and some industry > spies say it is still sought-after. Also I see it in connection with > Websphere in shops with z/OS so there's a migration path there. > Although I hear a lot about C# these days, especially in conjunction > with the .NET framework. And I've done Macros in VB for Excel and > terminal emulators. > My objectives are: > 1. to give me another career option if z/OS work dries up > 2. to enable me to program my own systems e.g. website and accounts if > I start my own business > 3. To have fun learning, and to do this in my own time (commuting and > evenings) > So should I learn Java, C#, VB or what? How do these languages relate > to web architectures such as .asp, php? Can I self-learn and just take > an exam? You want a job then all I can say is go to C# , C++, VB.NET and the .NET Framework. I don't know what's happening over there in the UK but over here in the US .NET is HOT with plenty of job opportunities contracting or otherwise and they are paying some long $$$$ for the expertise. All you have to do is go to www.dice.com or www.monster.com here in the US, enter .NET in the search field and see who they are looking for with the expertise. I am finishing a contract here in Reno, NV and I am gearing up to find the next contract, which I don't think I am going to have any problems finding a contract. I was given some .Net training on C# .NET which basically covered the material that's in the MS certification books that cover C# and VB.NET for WEB forms and WEB services, Desktop applications NT services and XML, and ADO.NET. To be honest, I being paid to learn on the fly as that is how desperate they are to find programmers with the .NET expertise. :) Hey, I am 50 something and came from the IBM mainframe to the client server back in 1996. You're a seasoned professional and that's what they are looking for is that you have a track record of building business solutions and you know .NET. I keep being told by others like the hiring managers you're from the old school and you have this .NET expertise. :) I was trained on .NET back in March 2005 for four weeks straight by the company I worked for, did a couple of projects for the full time company and said see ya I am going contracting for awhile. Duane :) Duane :) 回复
Duane Arnold 1月19日 上午12时32分 显示选项 新闻论坛:comp.programming 发件人: "Duane Arnold" <[email protected]> - 查找此作者的帖子 日期:Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:32:28 GMT 当地时间:2006年1月19日(星期四) 上午12时32分 主题:Re: Best language to learn for jobs - Java? C#? 回复 | 答复作者 | 转发 | 打印 | 显示个别帖子 | 显示原始邮件 | 报告滥用行为 Oh, one other thing I am starting to see opertunities for COBOL.NET too and some of the others. http://www.arunmicrosystems.netfirms.com/others.html Duane :)
First of all, here's a practical suggestion. Search job sites for computing jobs that you want. If the C# jobs and the Java jobs look equally appealing, learn the language which is used more often. If not, learn the language (and skills and certification) that gets you the job you want. Second, you'll probably find that Java/C# is a LOT harder to learn than BASIC, Pascal, or even Lisp. They're HUGE and because the design of both were driven by committees, they include huge tons of crap intended to please everyone and make themselves useful for any task. (Of course, that same swiss knife approach makes them ill suited to all tasks, but I digress...) Expect to read over 2000 pages of text and reference materials before becoming professionally proficient in either language. Of the two, unless you want to be married to Microsoft for the rest of your career, Java is the better choice (even if it's possibly not the better language). As to whether a language proficiency exam would be helpful... I have no idea. You'd have to look at job ads to see if employers request some sort of certification and what it is. MSCE is common in the US, but only for lower level non-"software engineer" jobs. It's also widely seen as being overrated and no guarantee that you'll land a job. If you want to build web sites, that's another topic entirely (ASP, PHP, etc). Java and C# really aren't necessary to do that. They're intended mostly for building enterprise apps that include both web interfaces and databases. For the norm how Java is used, see "Three-tier" software architectures: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-tier ajk 1月19日 下午12时32分 显示选项 用行为 I think getting a certification in your case is not necessary. You have already several years of experience. An employer looks more on that then some cert by experienced people. First think about what kind of job you are looking for, then learn the language best suited for it - whether it is C#//VB.NET/Java or whatever. Alternatively. learn the language that gives most hits on the job ads. BR/ajk Duane Arnold 1月19日 下午5时18分 显示选项 "ajk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]... >I think getting a certification in your case is not necessary. You have > already several years of experience. An employer looks more on that > then some cert by experienced people. I don't think that's true. I have 30 years of programming experience with various programming languages and the cert does make a difference if you have it on the resume. That MCP certification helped me get a job placing me in front of all candidates back in 2000 due to the dot.com bust when jobs were tight. That's what I was told by the hiring manager at the time that it was that MCP along with my experience that got me the full time employment at the time in front of everyone else. experience. As a contractor at the moment, I know that the MCP for .NET is getting me through the door on the interview and the job before other contractors along with my previous experience. I'll go as far as getting the MCAD and not go after the MCSD because of my experience. Every contractor that I have worked with out of India working here in the US has that certification. What that certification does is exposes one to the features of a language such as C# .Net that would take a programmer a long time to pick up or be exposed to during the normal day to day usage of the language. At least that's what it has done for me is give me some knowledge that I have used to build business solutions. That cert has also helped me pass those stupid tests for .NET that consulting firms and private sector companies do give to test one's .NET expertise. You don't far well on those test's, see ya. Duane :) 回复
nicandal Thanks to all who posted so far. In my experience here a Cert (however cheaply achieved) goes a long way with employers. I think I'll study the basics of Java first and meanwhile check the job ads. There's an architecture called Websphere which transcends the mainframe world, isn't that written in Java? Apologies for ignorance. Al 回复
Duane Arnold 1月20日 上午12时27分 显示选项 "nicandal" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]... It most likely is Java. However, .NET is coming and it runs across platforms too. It's the new boy on the block and MS has out done JAVA todate from what I have been told between the two languages. I just activated my resume on Dice (just started using Dice) and on Monster. Emails are flying in and the cellular is ringing off the hook about .NET permanent a contracting job opportunities. C# .NET is a Standard like JAVA is Standard. http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page .NET is coming. <g> Duane :)
换就换吧,很容易
--------------------------------------
Best language to learn for jobs - Java? C#? 关于此主题的全部 8 个帖子 - 树式浏览
[email protected]
1月18日 下午10时41分 显示选项 新闻论坛:comp.programming
发件人: [email protected] - 查找此作者的帖子
日期:18 Jan 2006 06:41:34 -0800
当地时间:2006年1月18日(星期三) 下午10时41分
主题:Best language to learn for jobs - Java? C#?
回复 | 答复作者 | 转发 | 打印 | 显示个别帖子 | 显示原始邮件 | 报告滥用行为 Hi all.
I'm 37 and experienced z/OS (MVS) Operations Analyst/Programmer with
COBOL, REXX and Easytrieve+ under my belt.
Wondering which new language and toolset(s) to learn to add to my CV. I
had a ZX81, Genie and BBC Micro as a kid thus I learnt BASIC in many
forms.
I did Pascal, LISP and prolog in University so I find new languages
easy to pick up. My final year project was a weak AI system to diagnose
car faults (corny I know) written in DOMAIN (an extension of LISP)
which used "frames" aka objects to represent knowledge so I met objects
at an early age.
I'm thinking Java because I like the look of it, and some industry
spies say it is still sought-after. Also I see it in connection with
Websphere in shops with z/OS so there's a migration path there.
Although I hear a lot about C# these days, especially in conjunction
with the .NET framework. And I've done Macros in VB for Excel and
terminal emulators.
My objectives are:
1. to give me another career option if z/OS work dries up
2. to enable me to program my own systems e.g. website and accounts if
I start my own business
3. To have fun learning, and to do this in my own time (commuting and
evenings)
So should I learn Java, C#, VB or what? How do these languages relate
to web architectures such as .asp, php? Can I self-learn and just take
an exam?
Appreciate your input.
Alan
Cheshire, UK.
回复
Duane Arnold
1月19日 上午12时10分 显示选项 新闻论坛:comp.programming
发件人: "Duane Arnold" <[email protected]> - 查找此作者的帖子
日期:Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:10:02 GMT
当地时间:2006年1月19日(星期四) 上午12时10分
主题:Re: Best language to learn for jobs - Java? C#?
回复 | 答复作者 | 转发 | 打印 | 显示个别帖子 | 显示原始邮件 | 报告滥用行为 <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... - 隐藏被引用文字 -
- 显示引用的文字 -> Hi all.
> I'm 37 and experienced z/OS (MVS) Operations Analyst/Programmer with
> COBOL, REXX and Easytrieve+ under my belt. > Wondering which new language and toolset(s) to learn to add to my CV. I
> had a ZX81, Genie and BBC Micro as a kid thus I learnt BASIC in many
> forms.
> I did Pascal, LISP and prolog in University so I find new languages
> easy to pick up. My final year project was a weak AI system to diagnose
> car faults (corny I know) written in DOMAIN (an extension of LISP)
> which used "frames" aka objects to represent knowledge so I met objects
> at an early age.
> I'm thinking Java because I like the look of it, and some industry
> spies say it is still sought-after. Also I see it in connection with
> Websphere in shops with z/OS so there's a migration path there.
> Although I hear a lot about C# these days, especially in conjunction
> with the .NET framework. And I've done Macros in VB for Excel and
> terminal emulators.
> My objectives are:
> 1. to give me another career option if z/OS work dries up
> 2. to enable me to program my own systems e.g. website and accounts if
> I start my own business
> 3. To have fun learning, and to do this in my own time (commuting and
> evenings)
> So should I learn Java, C#, VB or what? How do these languages relate
> to web architectures such as .asp, php? Can I self-learn and just take
> an exam? You want a job then all I can say is go to C# , C++, VB.NET and the .NET
Framework. I don't know what's happening over there in the UK but over here
in the US .NET is HOT with plenty of job opportunities contracting or
otherwise and they are paying some long $$$$ for the expertise. All you have to do is go to www.dice.com or www.monster.com here in the US,
enter .NET in the search field and see who they are looking for with the
expertise. I am finishing a contract here in Reno, NV and I am gearing up to
find the next contract, which I don't think I am going to have any problems
finding a contract.
I was given some .Net training on C# .NET which basically covered the
material that's in the MS certification books that cover C# and VB.NET for
WEB forms and WEB services, Desktop applications NT services and XML, and
ADO.NET. To be honest, I being paid to learn on the fly as that is how
desperate they are to find programmers with the .NET expertise. :)
Hey, I am 50 something and came from the IBM mainframe to the client server
back in 1996. You're a seasoned professional and that's what they are
looking for is that you have a track record of building business solutions
and you know .NET. I keep being told by others like the hiring managers
you're from the old school and you have this .NET expertise. :)
I was trained on .NET back in March 2005 for four weeks straight by the
company I worked for, did a couple of projects for the full time company
and said see ya I am going contracting for awhile.
Duane :)
Duane :)
回复
Duane Arnold
1月19日 上午12时32分 显示选项 新闻论坛:comp.programming
发件人: "Duane Arnold" <[email protected]> - 查找此作者的帖子
日期:Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:32:28 GMT
当地时间:2006年1月19日(星期四) 上午12时32分
主题:Re: Best language to learn for jobs - Java? C#?
回复 | 答复作者 | 转发 | 打印 | 显示个别帖子 | 显示原始邮件 | 报告滥用行为 Oh, one other thing I am starting to see opertunities for COBOL.NET too and
some of the others.
http://www.arunmicrosystems.netfirms.com/others.html
Duane :)
computing jobs that you want. If the C# jobs and the Java jobs look
equally appealing, learn the language which is used more often. If not,
learn the language (and skills and certification) that gets you the job
you want.
Second, you'll probably find that Java/C# is a LOT harder to learn than
BASIC, Pascal, or even Lisp. They're HUGE and because the design of
both were driven by committees, they include huge tons of crap intended
to please everyone and make themselves useful for any task. (Of course,
that same swiss knife approach makes them ill suited to all tasks, but I
digress...) Expect to read over 2000 pages of text and reference
materials before becoming professionally proficient in either language.
Of the two, unless you want to be married to Microsoft for the rest of
your career, Java is the better choice (even if it's possibly not the
better language).
As to whether a language proficiency exam would be helpful... I have no
idea. You'd have to look at job ads to see if employers request some
sort of certification and what it is. MSCE is common in the US, but
only for lower level non-"software engineer" jobs. It's also widely
seen as being overrated and no guarantee that you'll land a job.
If you want to build web sites, that's another topic entirely (ASP, PHP,
etc). Java and C# really aren't necessary to do that. They're
intended mostly for building enterprise apps that include both web
interfaces and databases. For the norm how Java is used, see
"Three-tier" software architectures:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-tier ajk
1月19日 下午12时32分 显示选项 用行为 I think getting a certification in your case is not necessary. You have
already several years of experience. An employer looks more on that
then some cert by experienced people.
First think about what kind of job you are looking for, then learn the
language best suited for it - whether it is C#//VB.NET/Java or
whatever. Alternatively. learn the language that gives most hits on
the job ads.
BR/ajk
Duane Arnold
1月19日 下午5时18分 显示选项 "ajk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I think getting a certification in your case is not necessary. You have
> already several years of experience. An employer looks more on that
> then some cert by experienced people.
I don't think that's true. I have 30 years of programming experience with
various programming languages and the cert does make a difference if you
have it on the resume. That MCP certification helped me get a job placing me
in front of all candidates back in 2000 due to the dot.com bust when jobs
were tight. That's what I was told by the hiring manager at the time that it
was that MCP along with my experience that got me the full time employment
at the time in front of everyone else. experience. As a contractor at the moment, I know that the MCP for .NET is getting me
through the door on the interview and the job before other contractors along
with my previous experience. I'll go as far as getting the MCAD and not go
after the MCSD because of my experience. Every contractor that I have worked
with out of India working here in the US has that certification.
What that certification does is exposes one to the features of a language
such as C# .Net that would take a programmer a long time to pick up or be
exposed to during the normal day to day usage of the language. At least
that's what it has done for me is give me some knowledge that I have used to
build business solutions. That cert has also helped me pass those stupid
tests for .NET that consulting firms and private sector companies do give
to test one's .NET expertise. You don't far well on those test's, see ya.
Duane :)
回复
nicandal Thanks to all who posted so far. In my experience here a Cert (however
cheaply achieved) goes a long way with employers. I think I'll study
the basics of Java first and meanwhile check the job ads. There's an architecture called Websphere which transcends the mainframe
world, isn't that written in Java?
Apologies for ignorance.
Al
回复
Duane Arnold
1月20日 上午12时27分 显示选项 "nicandal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
It most likely is Java. However, .NET is coming and it runs across platforms
too. It's the new boy on the block and MS has out done JAVA todate from what
I have been told between the two languages. I just activated my resume on
Dice (just started using Dice) and on Monster. Emails are flying in and the
cellular is ringing off the hook about .NET permanent a contracting job
opportunities. C# .NET is a Standard like JAVA is Standard. http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page
.NET is coming. <g>
Duane :)